Curse

FoxBat · Jun 01, 2010, 07:38 PM // 19:38

There were a number of interesting effects mentioned in the skill preview that did not make it into the final mesmer update. I know one of the important considerations in reworking mesmer skills is they want a limit on how many skills to split for PvE, which I support and see the sense of. So we didn't get the slower attack rate on soothing images for example and I'm fine with that. What I want to examine are the mesmer skills they did split for PvE, particularly elites, that are beyond niche and just outright junk. These skills should either be buffed/reworked in PvE, or else simply reverted to their PvP values to reduce complexity. And yeah I know Anet probably has bigger fish to fry, but I might as well put the ideas out there anyway for them to consider in their next balance update.

Migraine/Crippling Anguish

Mesmers have 2 PvE skills that gives them easy access to mass AoE degen, cry of pain being the better of them with its small nuke and interrupt ability. Couple in the typical death nova explosions and most encounters are already near the cap. In this environment, single-target degen, especially on an elite, is basically worthless. Crippling Anguish as such is completely outclassed by shared burden, which provides the same amount of shutdown in a larger AoE. Migrane's 200% cast effect is rarely needed compared to arcane conundrum's awesome energy management, frustration's damage bonus, or again shared burden's large AoE. The damage aspect on both skills could be played up by giving them a non-degen tick like illusion of pain. Barring that here are some functionality ideas:

-Crippling Anguish: knockdown the foe after every (or every other) successful attack, and/or lower the recharge to make it more spammy.

- Migrane: what happened to the "easily interruptable" even if PvE only? People whining about wind riders? Even if the degen or duration had to come down, this would be a useful niche effect. Barring that at least make it AoE.

Enchanter's Conundrum

This seemed like it might be a fun nuking skill. Provided you meet the condition, you get some OK AoE nuke, followed up by shatter and drain delusions. Unfortunately the skill doesn't work quite as one might hope, because it only hexes the target, not adjacent foes as well. It's also very expensive to keep using compared to energy surge, and has a smaller area of effect. If this is going to remain split for PvE, then I'd suggest either making the hex affect adjacent foes (even if only non-enchanted ones), or else bring it down to 5e and possibly 7-8r to sync up with shatter delusions.

Illusionary Weaponry

I don't particularly care for the idea of this skill, but the effect is still very weak. +30 armor at best isn't that impressive for an elite, I don't even know why the skill ended up being split from PvP. If you aren't going to just revert the effect to PvP (even at +3) for LOL RA screwing around, then it's going to need some substantial help, like a built-in IAS or blocking ability.

Mantra of Signets

I guess this is an improvement over the previous version, but it's still fairly horrible, even for keystone builds. Someone might run the PvP version as their heal in AB or whatever, but the PvE version is junk.

Spiritual Pain

Why did you guys adjust this skill, it's even worse now. :/ With unnatural signet being nuked and pve rit spirits completely OP, it would be nice to have a strong anti-spirit counter. I would lower the direct damage a little and bring back the instant recharge upon hitting spirit clause, at 5e it could actually then be spammed unlike the 10e version.

Anyway with the merging of a handful of PvE skills in the last update, I'm hopeful Anet will continue to evluate their PvE/P splits, keep them to a useful minimum, and either consider some of the update ideas above or simply eliminate the splits (mostly in favor of the PvP version)

Lanier · Jun 01, 2010, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Spiritual Pain is definitely much better now than it used to be. It may not be so useful for anti-spirit defenses but the original role was way too limited anyway. Now It makes for a spammable ar-ignoring damage skill to activate mind wrack.

The IW update didnt really change anything since it doesnt really have any synergy with Illusion skills. I think the biggest buff for it, rather than changing the skill, would be to change some of the useless illusion skills and give them effects that would synergize well with a melee-range mesmer role.

Mantra of Signets doesnt need a change. In a signet heavy build, which is what it is designed for, it does its job of additional defense pretty well.

I dont think that Enchanter's Conundrum needs a change either. In PvE, the additional time spent on enchantments doesnt really matter, so making this hex AoE wouldn't really make the skill any better. That said, I dont think the skill needs to be better. It may have a lower AoE range than the other direct damage elite, e-surge, has, but Enchanter's Conundrum does a good bit more damage and synergizes well with Shatter delusions.

As for Migraine and Crippling Anguish, I don't really think either of these skills need changing either, but I think that is mainly because of my personal opinion that degen is not useless (and I dont always use CoP or death nova). I really think these skills are fine as they are.

FoxBat · Jun 01, 2010, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Mantra of Signets doesnt need a change. In a signet heavy build, which is what it is designed for, it does its job of additional defense pretty well.

+15 armor doesn't do any defense job well in PvE.

Quote:

In PvE, the additional time spent on enchantments doesnt really matter, so making this hex AoE wouldn't really make the skill any better.

Multiple shatters and drain from a single cast is what I was thinking here. Could care about the enchant lengthen effect.

Lanier · Jun 01, 2010, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

+15 armor doesn't do any defense job well in PvE.

It gives the armor bonus + a good chunk of health each time a signet is used. In a build that involves spamming signets, that is a lot of health and can take a lot of pressure off the monks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Multiple shatters and drain from a single cast is what I was thinking here. Could care about the enchant lengthen effect.

I'm certainly not opposed to this idea. I don't think its really neccessary though as Enchanters Conundrum is already pretty well balanced in my opinion.

Cuilan · Jun 02, 2010, 12:48 AM // 00:48

I'm mainly going to have to agree with Illusionary Weaponry. Nothing goes with it and it doesn't do much damage even if something went or didn't go with it.

MagmaRed · Jun 02, 2010, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Eh, IW isn't that bad, but it doesn't need a full bar of Illusion skills. Illusion of Weakness works well with it, as do Ancestors and Sympathetic Visage, and to prevent enemies from kiting, you can easily toss on a snare hex. I don't really think we need MORE AoE from Mesmer, we already for some significant buffs to make skills AoE (Ineptitude and Psychic Instablility for the obvious ones). And putting a knockdown on Crippling Anguish makes no sense and makes a strong skill too strong.

The Drunkard · Jun 02, 2010, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Eh, IW isn't that bad, but it doesn't need a full bar of Illusion skills. Illusion of Weakness works well with it, as do Ancestors and Sympathetic Visage, and to prevent enemies from kiting, you can easily toss on a snare hex. I don't really think we need MORE AoE from Mesmer, we already for some significant buffs to make skills AoE (Ineptitude and Psychic Instablility for the obvious ones). And putting a knockdown on Crippling Anguish makes no sense and makes a strong skill too strong.

The old IW and conviction is still superior to the new IW because illusion magic isn't meant for buffing yourself.